Oct
31

Apparently…

31 Comments

…Brent isn’t the only one that hates MMOs

;)

D out.

/runs and hides

Posted in Editorial
31 Comments Posted by Darren

31 Responses to "Apparently…"

  • Ethic says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:11 am

    You got a little something on your nose there.

  • Gaff says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Is this the trick or the treat ?

  • Sente says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:26 am

    It is just business as usual, no reason to hide :)

    How often over all MMO launches has there been a game that pretty much everyone was as excited with some time after launch that they wre before launch?

  • Zubon says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Ethic:

    Veronica: Oh, Madison, you have a little… [Rubs her own nose]
    Madison: What? Brown? Because I’m a brown-noser? [Sarcastically]
    Veronica: No. Glitter. Because you’re a fairy princess!

    (sorry if tags go horribly — no preview button)

    Many of us seem to have become tired of MMOs, grinding, etc. all at the same time. We tried again with WAR, so we all got sick of everything at once. Time for the next generation of MMO bloggers? Time for the next generation of games after MMOs?

  • p@tsh@t says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Don’t make me come to Guk and, uh, not kick your ass… or… something.

    /poofling

  • Karen says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Darren you troublemaker!

  • Pete S says:
    October 31, 2008 at 11:58 am

    I think there’s a difference between playing a game for 4-6 weeks and deciding it isn’t living up to its potential, and playing a game for 20 minutes and dismissing it out of hand.

    But that’s just me.

  • Hudson says:
    October 31, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    How do I leave a trackback?!! ARGH I dont understand the INTRAWEBZ

    I’ll just post on my site bah

  • Something To It… « Random Ogre Thoughts says:
    October 31, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    [...] Categories: MMOs, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning and World of Warcraft Darren is doing an “I told you so” indirectly, because it was more Brent telling us so… [...]

  • Werit says:
    October 31, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    I was looking for a game, not a way of life. That’s what I got with WAR.

  • Julie Whitefeather says:
    October 31, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Outstanding in thier field: The “blogosphere” is rife with articles and commentary by bloggers and columnists who are upset because the majority of players haven’t chosen to play Warhammer the way they want them to play. It’s almost as if, not in all but some cases, a few bloggers are saying “if you won’t play the way I want I am going to take my marbles and go home.” Well fine by me, let me get their marble bag for them and fill it up.

    You would think, on the surface of it, that people wouldn’t care what a blogger, columnist or podcaster likes or dislikes in a game. After all, it’s just their opinion. If you or I or someone else does or does not like a particular game why should it be “any skin off someone elses nose” if they want to play it. Yet twice this week one podcaster on Virgin Worlds has spoken up and told each of the two Warhammer podcasts to stop talking about warcraft. This week I even got my first hate mail (I must be doing something right). In the end if Brent hates a game, if I hate a game, or you hate a game…well so what? Don’t like it don’t play it? *big smiles* why would anyone play a game they hate? Likewise why would someone play a game in the WAY they hate just because the Devs at Mythyic don’t like the way they are playing it. Mark Jacobs not only said that RvR is the core of Warhammer, what makes it stand apart from the others – he also said that if it came up to nerfing pve for the sake of RvR he would do it (see the last issue of Massive Online Gamer Magazine). In the end the question becomes does even Mythic have the right to tell gamers how to play their own game?

  • Julie Whitefeather says:
    October 31, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    P.S. Why outstanding in their field? Because often it is a case of a few bloggers and columnists standing alone in thier field and three quarters of a million players standing in their field.

    Julie

  • Sara Pickell says:
    October 31, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    @Pete
    Yeah, some people are slower at taking things in than others. ~.^

  • Pete S says:
    October 31, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    At some point in its growth a blog becomes Media. When it reaches that point, and from all the commotion virginworlds apparently is that large, a certain responsibility comes along for the ride. The writer is now potentially swaying the opinion of people. At that point, I feel it is irresponsible to make snap judgments on a title. Grabbing a random unrelated example, let’s look at Penny Arcade. At one point they were just a web comic. Now their endorsement carries huge weight. If they glance at a game and says “This sucks” its pretty irresponsible of them. It may turn out that the game really does suck, and it may not. If it does, just because they got lucky it doesn’t mean they were right.

    But y’know, the blogosphere is all about being flip and edgy, right Sara? Fuck everything else.

  • Snafzg says:
    October 31, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Waaa(gh)! I think I was having my man-period yesterday, but oh well. I’m giving it a while to impress me again, and I’ll be making my official play/quit decision on January 1st after I’ve seen what the 1.1 patch has to offer. If it fails to do so, toodle-oo.

  • Hudson says:
    October 31, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I think the best way I can put it is: I had more fun grouping and questing in DAOC THEN doing RVR than I did in WAR, and DAOC was a long time ago. How is it that an older version of basically the same thing is not as fun as the newest game Mythic has put out? I am baffled. Darren curse you for drawing out my emotions again!

    but Happy Halloween!

  • syncaine says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Quick look, the carebears are running for the hills, what a shock…

    How is any of this a surprise? A bunch of PvE fans jump on the hype bandwagon, expecting the world (of warcraft), and once they arrive and notice the lack of neon, run screaming. It’s UO trammies in 2008, now with blogs. We have seen this before, over and over again. AC-DT gets hyped, people arrive, get killed, run away. DAoC gets hyped, people arrive, get killed, run away. Now it’s WAR’s turn to experience the cycle, and we are fully in it, just with a lot more coverage.

  • Julie Whitefeather says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    @ Pete S: While I understand the point you make (and agree to an extent) if I don’t like a particular aspect of a game I say so. This shouldn’t keep other people from playing a game. Who knows maybe they will like it. I like PvP but some people don’t. In support of what you are saying, however, is the fact that I have had hate mail telling me to stop podcasting about a particular game. As far as snap judgements are concerned this would certainly be true in beta. But once a game is out of beta it seems to be fair game to me. However, that is tempered, of course, with the fact that the majority of the players in Warhammer have not yet reached the level cap – the game may change and change drastically in its nature when they do.

  • Rog says:
    November 1, 2008 at 6:25 am

    @syncaine: You seriously think it’ll be just the PvE players leaving? Seems to me DAoC had its mass PvP player exodus. I’d bet dollar for dollar that WAR will see the same unless Mythic gets their RvR into a state that’s actually fun. It’s a far less forgiving crowd.

    Players leaving is a reflection of the state of the game, overall. I for one, want my full slice of pie, both PvE and PvP. When both start to suck, I start playing other games. If one or the other is good, I’m likely to play longer, depending on my other choices. For PvP I have *tons* of other choices.

    I’m not calling doom and gloom, but there are alarms ringing and I think Mythic is just listening to the yes men.

  • Hudson says:
    November 1, 2008 at 8:20 am

    Aww c’mon now Syncaine. The only thing I’m running from is a total lack of immersion and utter boredom.

  • Pete S says:
    November 1, 2008 at 9:27 am

    @ Julie Whitefeather: I was referring back to the original “Jump the Shark” Brent post (based on beta) in my first comment, and to Sara Pickell’s response to me in my second. I absolutely agree with you that if you’ve played the final release of a game and don’t like aspects of it, then you should say so. But you need to play the whole, final game for a reasonable amount of time. At some point in your rise in popularity you become a de facto game reviewer. And would you want to read game reviews done by people that played a game briefly while in beta?

    The real irony is that a lot of the people who are leaving now actually enjoyed the beta (which Brent deemed not fun) quite a bit. The one thing a beta apparently can’t test is the difference between an audience willing to sign up and play a beta, and the audience who just pick up a game randomly at the local Best Buy. I too am finding the release Warhammer game very different from the beta, and that difference is mostly based on player behavior.

    Also I was having a Really Bad Day yesterday and snuck off to the interwebs for some relief, and I’m quaint enough that it troubles me when game bloggers start jeering and taking pot shots at each other just to farm comments. (Still naive at my age…can’t we all just get along?) Though I then buy right into the ploy. LOL But I probably shouldn’t have been posting comments in my rather annoyed state.

  • coppertopper says:
    November 1, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    @syncaine –
    Yes all us carebears: Heartless, Keen and Graeve, ex-CoW guildies, our mouse hand shaking everytime we logged into WAR. The stress of our avatars dieing in combat to another player controlled avatar, and that humiliating walk back past our realmates, the 3 minute debuff of shame shining clearly above our heads. Thank God for you WoW…THANK GOD FOR YOU!!!!

  • syncaine says:
    November 3, 2008 at 11:24 am

    It’s not the PvE or PvP players leaving, it’s the one month WoW train. See my blog for the full explanation, but that’s that major exodus. As for individual bloggers, it’s a case by case basis, but overall I would say it’s unreasonable expectations. WAR is basically DAoC 2.0, with some of the trappings of a post-WoW MMO. Whether the post-WoW part is a plus or minus depends on what you are looking for.

    But a lot of the stuff we read is this overall PvE-view (carebear) take on PvP. Why is it not around 100% of the time, why is it unfair/unbalanced, why does it revolve around unexpected factors (magnet abuse for instance). The answer to all that is because it’s PvP, that’s just how it works. It was never fair in UO, or AC, or DAoC. It’s only ‘fair’ in WoW because it’s forced and everyone is handed welfare epics. And that works for the majority, because the casual majority don’t want PvP. They like standing around bashing a script NPC and knowing they will be the hero. Which again, is perfectly fine if that’s your thing, but for PvP fans, it’s not. I’ll take imbalance over scripted any day in an MMO.

    All that said, WAR does have some major steps to take before it will deliver on it’s full RvR potential, but I think it’s hard to deny it has a massive amount of potential. The choice is whether what the game currently offers is entertaining (like it is for me), or if you are someone who needs the MMO more refined before it comes acceptable. WAR will certainly carry a large enough population to keep it going and improving, and my guess is at different stages of refinement, different players will find there way back.

  • wilhelm2451 says:
    November 3, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Syncaine, could you get any more condescending and dismissive?

    Our own group pressed on for six weeks, then let it go because we were not having fun. But, according to you, that is an “unreasonable expectation” I guess.

    The “promise” was “War is Everywhere.” Open RvR is what we came for. That was what we wanted. That was the niche the game promised to deliver. But on our server, at prime time on Saturday night, week after week, for 3+ hours at a stretch, war was mostly nowhere in our tier.

    When it happened, it was a lot of fun. But it wasn’t happening.

    And you can go on about PvP not being on demand, but if you cannot find any week after week during a prime time window on Saturday night, I’m sorry, but we’re not talking about unreasonable expectations any more. You are now talking about six people spending money and not having fun.

    So we left. Buh-bye. No hard feelings Mythic.

    And if you want to keep telling me the problem was us and not the game, that is your prerogative, but don’t expect me to sit still and nod my head or agree with some of your own rather unreasonable statements or condescending generalizations.

  • JoBildo says:
    November 3, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    To be fair, Wil… WAR was everywhere for the 5 days of the Halloween event. :) So I hope you and the other guys check back soon. There’s open recruitment in CoW right now, from friends and family to member referrals, so we’re ready for the Saturday group’s return when you are. :D

  • wilhelm2451 says:
    November 3, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Fair! What’s fair? That Syncaine will probably go all reasonable on me and make me feel guilty about posting in haste! *shakes fist*

    Nah, WAR is over for us for now. We have to have an idea by mid-week about what we’ll be doing on Saturday, especially when we’re talking about a game swap. So it was Halloween fun in Azeroth.

  • syncaine says:
    November 3, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    I was able to find ORvR even on Thorgrim, with MY group of 5 friends, more often than not (but not nearly as much as we wanted). Granted we play more than just on Saturday, but still, you make it seem like it never happened, which even on low pop, was not the case. On high pop it’s an entirely different game (the one Mythic wants people to play, so shame on them for the server situation, but at least they are resolving it 1 month after release)

    It’s too bad you guys are gone, I think you would really enjoy WAR on Monolith.

  • TheRemedy says:
    November 4, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    I have this uncontrollable urge to get this post to 30 comments. Why? I don’t know. Maybe 29 is overrated.

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