May
1

Best Combat…well, not yet.

11 Comments

A question came up on Massively regarding which MMO has the best combat. Actually, here’s the question verbatim:

When it comes to fighting in games, surely the biggest defining factor is, or should be, “Is it exciting?” Given that singular criterion, then, which game has the best combat? Which one gets your blood racing? Which MMO really lets you, as the kids used to say, throw down?

My answer? None…yet. At this point in MMO evolution, I can’t really think of any MMO that has the best combat system compared to everyone else. Why? One reason is that I feel that they are all pretty much the same at this point….at least in the back end of things anyway. You can feel it in your bones actually. Probably the most engaging combat system so far has been Tabula Rasa…but that’s not just due to the combat system as much as the environment that the designers have set up. I don’t think the combat would be nearly as interesting if they didn’t have gameplay features like drop ships, Base fights and the inherent story line.

The one element of combat that makes a difference to me is feedback. It is so important that the user “feel” like they are hitting something when they use their skills/feats/powers. By far, the best game to do that is WoW. These guys must have spent a good amount of time getting the correct combat feedback to the user. When I backstab with my Rogue, I know when I hit something. The combination of sound and graphic cues fit perfectly in that game. The worse MMO to do this so far is LOTRO. Honestly, the timing must only be fractions of a second off…but I just don’t feel like I’m hitting things in that game. When I use skills in that game, I constantly have to look at my skill timers to figure out if my skill has fired or not.

Combat isn’t so much about “throwing down” or “getting the blood racing”….sure, that can be part of it. It’s getting that all too overlooked mechanic of feedback to the player. Since I love lists so much, out of all the MMOs that I can remember playing to date, here are the best MMOs at combat feedback:

- WoW
- EQ2
- Guild Wars
- CoH
- Eve Online
- DDO
- LOTRO

Hmmmm…me thinks Turbine has some work to do in this area because I just noticed for myself that I placed DDO and LOTRO at the bottom. Interesting.

Also note that I haven?t tried AoC yet?so I may have to update this list soon. I?ve heard nothing by good things about the combat system there.

D out.

Posted in Editorial
11 Comments Posted by Darren

11 Responses to "Best Combat…well, not yet."

  • Swift Voyager says:
    May 1, 2008 at 9:06 am

    I would put Eve at the bottom, though I love the game. There are tons of things in the game that have zero feedback, either visual or audio. For many of the weapons and defensive items on my ships, the only way I know it’s working is that the tiny button is flashing green. The sounds of incoming fire are horrible, again the only way I know I’m getting hit is from the text display(if I have that turned on) or by watching my shield/armor power. Additionally, most of my ships are set up so that once I start a fight I can go make a tuna sandwich and come back later to see if I won or not. When you fire 8 cannons, the sound is the same as if you fired one, or it goofs up and plays some mish-mash of sounds that doesn’t sound like a cannon any more. And what is the audio/visual difference between a good hit and a bad one? none. Every ship explosion is the same, maybe except for the capitol ships but I’m not sure about them. That list of stuff is my biggest gripe about Eve. Effects are client-side, so the only limit to how cool they can be is system requirements. I’m sure I’ve played games 10 years ago that had better audio than Eve, and I know I didn’t have an Audigy 2 Zx sound card in that computer. If they want people to be able to play the game on a 10 year old computer, then that’s a little silly.

  • kanthalos says:
    May 1, 2008 at 9:09 am

    One combat system that also has some potential is Chronicles of Spellborn. It uses a targeting reticule to aim at your opponent, and depending on your positioning, you will miss or hit. Basically, its an MMOFPS. If this is implemented right, it could change the face of MMO combat. That said, I’m worried that running around to dodge/attack coupled with punching numbers (skills) at the same time is simply going to be too demanding for a great deal of players, who will get very frustrated and give up. Also, it doesn’t seem like there is any way to play it with the traditional button-mashing systems like every other MMO out there. Just because they are using a new system, doesn’t give them any free points with me (except for the fact that they tried) unless it really works, so I’ll just have to wait and see.

  • Ethic says:
    May 1, 2008 at 9:52 am

    DDO? Really? I enjoyed that combat system more than most MMOs. Nicely interactive. Actually blocking with the shield or tumbling out of the way. I’ve also grown used to LotRO now. It was odd at first but now that I know how it works I have no problem with it. I just had to learn a different system is all.

  • Galladan says:
    May 1, 2008 at 9:52 am

    The question is: should combat be exciting in an MMO?

    As long as the activities you can do in an MMO are centered around repetition (from the classic “kill 10 rats” to the heights of “grind 200 Sunfury archers for your engineering recipe”), I tend to think that making combat exciting (meaning that requires skill, reflexes and is inherently more difficult) would me more a hindrance than a benefit for me.

    If I have to kill 200 archers, let me do it easily, please :)

  • SmakenDahed says:
    May 1, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Hmm… for “feedback” or feel of combat, I’d have to say:

    - WoW
    - CoH
    - VG
    - DDO
    - EQ1
    - EQ2

    Call me crazy, I’d put them in that order. I throw VG in above EQ2 because I found it EQ2 like, though I like the combat animations better – I felt like there was more of a ‘crunch’ in VG, less so in EQ2 which I rate lower than EQ1 (hey, I like the crunch sounds when you scored a bit hit). Maybe that’s simply a matter of too many visual effects going on in EQ2′s combat that I don’t really notice the hits.

    I haven’t played Eve or LOTRO so, they’re not on my list. It’s been too long since I played Guild Wars so… :)

  • Bildo says:
    May 1, 2008 at 10:27 am

    I’m a bit biased sure, but now with the US Reporters Embargo lifted on Age of Conan, I can surely say that AoC has the most fun combat in any MMOG I’ve played.

  • Pixie Styx says:
    May 1, 2008 at 10:35 am

    I actully prefer lotros combat system, feels more like iam planning my next attack / move rather than button mashing frenzy of wow. Tabula rasa and the upcoming AoC and Spellborn are way more interactive and enjoyable though …. i say bring it on, i have dusted off my nostromo and ready to go interactive lol

  • Cow Nose the 50 Pound Cat says:
    May 1, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Wow, I’m surprised everyone so far has ranked EvE combat so low! See, from my perspective EvE is the ONLY mmo (that I have played so far) that meets the criteria from your original question.

    Sure, all those other MMOs may have better immediate feedback like you know when you hit them and stuff (indeed I played WoW for a couple months and I really did enjoy the PvP, it felt really satisfying to blow someone away with a spell on my mage or to charge in swinging with my warrior).

    But are they REALLY EXCITING? Do they actually MAKE YOUR BLOOD RACE AND YOUR HEART POUND? Hell no! Yeah I have had some fun times in the battlegrounds and it sucks to loose and is awesome to win, especially when the fight is really close

    But NOTHING, I mean NOTHING gets my blood pumping like combat in EvE! Every time I do it my adrenaline really does kick in (how many other MMOs combat actually gets adrenaline into you? I’m serious, I’m talking about that real chemical feeling of fight or flight you get) This is because of two reasons: The first, is that skill (not loot) really does come into play. You have to know what your doing, and on top of that you have to be really familiar with what kind of setup and tactics and ship the enemy has. Plus, EvE’s combat has some SERIOUS losses. You know that if you die, it will hurt, but if you manage to kill the enemy, you know it hurts them too! This makes EvEs combat really exciting and satisfies all the requirements of your question.

    When you kill someone in WoW, do you think the person on the other end is like “Arghh!” and has a moment of agony before they realize it’s just a game? Nah, not when you can just stand right back up again and keep going.

  • yunk says:
    May 1, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    I liked LOTRO’s combat until I started playing a hunter. I played a guardian up to the level cap, and then a minstrel up about halfway. Then I played a hunter up until 47. On the hunter. Once I started trying to use induction skills, the bad lag problems with those, the buggy pathing, just drove me crazy. LOTRO is by far the worst at the “feel” of combat.
    It’s basically almost like I’m playing a turn based game like Civ. And that’s not because of the “on-next-attack” nature of many abilities as opposed to “instant”.

  • Syncaine says:
    May 1, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I think a huge part of whether people like or dislike the combat in LoTRO is if you are going from WoW to LoTRO or just picking LoTRO up. WoW is just plain faster than LoTRO, and going directly from it makes LoTRO look slow, with that “come on, do the move already” sensation.

    However, having gone back and forth between the two, its not a case of slower, but rather how each implements the global cooldown. WoW the GC triggers instantly, while in LoTRO its on a ‘next swing’ setting. Once you realize the ‘on next swing’ aspect of LoTRO, I personally think its a very good combat system. More strategy and planning, less “click every 1s” like WoW.

    Not sure how I feel about EVE. On the pure ‘feel like you hit something’, its very weak. But in terms of getting excited, flying into a lvl4 mission, or a border low-sec gate, and EVE certainly gets your heart racing, more than any other MMO b.c of the huge risk.

    Bottom of my list would be EQ2, just never got anything out of that game, combat system included.

  • Sente says:
    May 2, 2008 at 7:56 am

    I would put CoH/CoV at the top of the combat list in terms of feedback and general smootheness. WoW probably ends up somewhere in the top also, but I have not played it in over 2 years, so memory gets a bit fuzzy on the details.

    The overall experience puts Tabula Rasa at the top, but as you say that is much due to the general environment as well. It would still rank fairly high I think, but it has a few quirks.
    But if you want to answer the original question, you have to factor in more than just the combat mechanics themselves. If you just want to talk about the mechanics them the question would rather be “does the mechanics works with you and not against you and to what extent?”

    So far CoH/CoV and Tabula Rasa are the only games that I can say that I have had “wow…that was intense” types of moments in PVE – but that is on selected occasions and team settings of course. Tabula Rasa may be the only one where there has been moments a bit like that solo.

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