Aug
18

Champions not getting the love

19 Comments

So, it looks like it’s just not me then when it comes to the impressions of CO.

We do have to keep in mind that this is beta, but hey…we also have to remember that Cryptic decided to put CO out there in Open Beta state so for me, it deserves whatever criticism it gets . Although we have seen mostly “meh” to negative beta previews out there, we have also seen the usual “MMO-beta-is-not-the-real-game” apologists out there who somehow still hold the belief that Jesus himself will come down and deliver the miracle patch to Cryptic on a couple of tablets. Not really how it works.

When Cryptic decided to go Open Beta, they also decided that it was time for the public to see their game. When they decided that, all bets on “it’s only beta” are off. If you don’t want a public opinion on your game, then don’t give it to the public. An excuse for a “meh” or negative response for your open beta, which you decided to give to us, is never “it’s only a beta”. No. If you think so then you have no idea what a beta is in the first place. The proper response would be to push back the release date and work on it some more.

We’ve all argued about this before….what’s a beta? When do you go beta? Should you do betas? Missing…the…point. I refuse to get into that tired, old debate when the main point is that CO is not ready for public eyes right now and shouldn’t be for another 3-6 months. The public preview (…and that’s what it is…) of the game did not impress upon me that CO is going to be anywhere near a unique experience at launch.

D out

Posted in Editorial
19 Comments Posted by Darren

19 Responses to "Champions not getting the love"

  • Rog says:
    August 18, 2009 at 8:21 am

    I think Cryptic may be wondering the same questions about what a beta is. If not, then they should be. Their initial response to the patcher issues yesterday were oldschool, as if they expected people to take the problems in stride “it’s beta”, but of course as you point out: Most people just don’t see it that way.

    I’m not even sure myself what the fascination is with pre-release games and how they’re elevated into hype status by the players, bloggers, pundits and forum-goers. I suppose it’s kinda similar to those unwrapping product videos, where the excitement and mystery of a new product makes even the cardboard packaging a fascination.

    I know a lot of people would call it marketing suicide, but I think most MMO companies would be wise to have very tight closed betas (actual beta) and not hold an open beta at all, simply release the game when it’s ready (or financially required, which seems to be more often the case). Cover the try-before-you-buy types with a free trial after release (and marketing-wise, although some would freak, delayed AFTER release).

  • Robert Schultz says:
    August 18, 2009 at 8:28 am

    So City of Heroes was, well, not too bad. It had some great parts, but just not enough for me to stay.

    From all the different blog reviews I’ve read about Champions, it sounds pretty horrible.

    Now I’m worrying that Cryptic’s Star Trek online will be horrible too.

    I guess time will tell.

  • Ravious says:
    August 18, 2009 at 8:32 am

    For any run of the mill forum review, I would agree. But, I know which bloggers I trust, and I know which bloggers can parse “fixable” from “base level crap game design.” If Cryptic had three months to go before launch, the “it’s in beta” excuse would work, but the Hail Mary patch required to re-design (not hearing much about bug issues) CO is extremely unlikely.

  • Beau says:
    August 18, 2009 at 8:33 am

    “…who somehow still hold the belief that Jesus himself will come down and deliver the miracle patch..”

    Such dramatics! The point is that many beta’s have started off one way and ended with some pretty major changes to the game. Just because they decided to take testing to the next level does not mean that it is a release. Name almost any MMO and I’ll show ya how it changed within the first month to a few months later. It is a process.

    Have a little patience, damn. If the game sucks, so be it. But don’t criticize a game company for doing exactly what game companies have been doing for YEARS. And also, don’t mistake the game as it is now for the same game it will be even in a few months. I wish more people (IF they wanted to help out) would log in and help hunt down bugs and errors.

    No one is apologizing, some people are just recognizing a process that has gone on for years.

    Beau

  • Charles King says:
    August 18, 2009 at 8:50 am

    @Beau – the problem is that, once a game hits OB status, the game code is pretty much set for launch [gold code is already at disc printers]. Sure, they likely have patches sitting on dev servers or in QA, but the first impression people will get is the Launch code. Even if they patch on launch day (something that some people tend to have problems with), the chances of them fixing everything that is being found wrong in the game is pretty low. The only way MMO’s can truly do well now-a-days is to have a Launch that holds people – having issues on launch day is standard, and people have come to expect it. Having a game that is buggy as heck on Launch day – even with promises of patches forthcoming to fix – can tank a game in its infancy (take a look at Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, etc).

  • openedge1 says:
    August 18, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Beau is an apologist…MMO addiction does that…lol

    Really, this game has not done anything to change my mind about future MMO’s. I said 2009 was a wash at the end of 2008 and on, and it is coming true.

    Champions is “ok”, and ok does not sell big. Expect another AoC/WAR sell off.

    Aion is another story though. Even though it sucks (to me), it will do well, and become our #2 MMO behind WoW…

    Why? Polish, polish, polish…it looks good, plays well on almost all computers and it is so polished as to be so slick …(well, I better get off THIS entrende train…you get my message here)

    Cheers

  • Coppertopper says:
    August 18, 2009 at 9:50 am

    I’m pretty disappointed. Really wanted to hear great things about Champions as the fantasy MMO genre is so tired at this point. Was really looking forward to shooting some frickin laser beams out of my hands. They really blew a great opportunity. Instead looks like they will go the Vanguard/Warhammer/Conan route only with far less players at launch to lose after the first 3 months of gameplay.

  • syncaine says:
    August 18, 2009 at 9:57 am

    Another thing to keep in mind about beta is that more often than not, your impression of the game is HIGHER in beta than it is 2-3 months after, once the ‘newness’ has worn off. How many people LOVED LotRO in beta, only to come around 2-3 months later and say ‘hey, it’s a WoW clone’. Same for WAR, how many people tripped over themselves to call it amazing because everyone in beta was all about RvR and so the chain-scenario problem was a non-issue? People swore PQs were the ‘it’ thing because in beta, everyone actually did them due to the ‘newness’ and they worked. Remember PotBS, and it’s great and interesting ship combat? How long did that last after launch?

    If you can’t enjoy an MMO in it’s best state, when all around you the people playing are those who are really into the game and everything is new and exciting for everyone, what’s that game going to look like after the first month? How many MMOs have had very poor showings in beta and come around shortly after to really hold people?

    Funcom should get credit for sticking with AoC, because without the miracle work they have put in that game would be shut down by now. Does CO even have the base AoC had to built something worthwhile? Does Cyptic have the backing that Funcom had to work on a near-dead title for 6+ months before seeing results? Plus AoC sold close to 1m boxes at release, which likely funded a lot of that miracle patching. Does ANYONE think CO is going to push that many boxes?

  • SmakenDahed says:
    August 18, 2009 at 10:27 am

    To be fair, WAR was a lot of fun until you hit level 12 or so. Basically, remove the RPG elements from it, start everyone at what level 11 was like, drop the subscription, make a power up that does various things to different classes and turn it into a FPS-like game, only without the guns… except for Witch Hunters and Engineers.

    Beta means different things to different industries. It seems for MMO shops it’s dipping a toe in the water to see if they can push it out the door or not. Other companies? Not so much. More of a, how do you like these features? Is this the right direction? Okay, we’ll keep at it or make adjustments and release much later down the line. Not Beta, close beta and immediate release.

  • Jalann says:
    August 18, 2009 at 11:27 am

    I simply agree with Darren in his first two paragraphs.

    I don’t see why any company would have Open Beta’s, unless they knew their product worked really well. If your game is good word-of-mouth will spread and people will buy and play it.

    MMO Developers really need to rethink this whole process.

  • ScytheNoire says:
    August 18, 2009 at 11:35 am

    IT’S NOT A BETA!

    I’m so sick of games calling things an Open Beta when it’s A) not open, you have to pay to get in and B) a damn preview, the game has gone gold, it’s done.

    I’ve been in enough Bet… errr, Previews to know that what you experience there is what you get at launch. AoC may be the only game that did some massive work, but actually, they just released the wrong client for the Preview.

    The game is what it is. Accept it. Either you like it, or you don’t. People who keep defending it have to understand that for some, many, it’s not what they want in an MMO. So enjoy it while they can.

  • Jalann says:
    August 18, 2009 at 11:53 am

    I think the most interesting and disturbing thing to note is the number of people saying, “It’s Beta, this is normal.”

    This should NOT be normal. Players need to raise their standards.

  • IC says:
    August 18, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    Having seen what Cryptic has done in closed beta between patches, I think those who are considering this the ‘final product’ are mistaken. Champions Online is a good, solid game. Until we have full virtual reality and physical feet back and more, no game will equal the expectations placed upon it by fans and nay-sayers.

    The fighting is active. The graphics, while not everyone’s bag, are impressive. The customization, which people have been crying for since CoH came out and they realized – hey, I don’t have to be the same druid over and over again, is amazing.

    For those of you who have purely negative responses to this game, I ask that you simply -play- the game. Choose your powers. Have fun.

    Yeesh. The way some of you put it seems like it’s like the Health Care debate.

  • Bhagpuss says:
    August 18, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    I have to agree with Syncaine. Most MMOs I’ve beta’d were at their most enjoyable in beta. The ones I really, really liked in Beta I deliberately stopped playing at that point because I knew I would play the game at launch and didn’t want to “stale” it. Also, on Funcom, they seem to have a company philosophy that goes “just get it out the door, we can fix it up later” and then they actually do it. They did it with AO too. They’d surely make more money if they just got it right first time, wouldn’t they?

    Beau is right that MMOs are always a work in progress and many do improve, but they rarely improve enough, or fast enough, to overcome the kind of bad publicity Champions is getting right now. Most of the “improvements” , anyway, are no more than fixing core systems that should always have worked.

    The only MMO I can think of that improved out of all recognition after it went Live is EQ2, which basically redesigned itself from the ground up from about year 2 to year 4. And despite that, it never recovered to anything like the subs it could have had, had they gotten it right first time round.

    Back in the days when you could count all the MMOs in the world without having to take your socks off, companies could get away with disastrous open betas and launches. Those days are long gone.

  • Luk says:
    August 18, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    When i played closed beta for CO, I had a mixed response for the game, because of initial confusion and failed expectations.
    I expected COH2, what i got was COH/Guild Wars/Marvel Untimate Alliance mishap (umm if you know what i mean).

    @IC:
    I would give this game another try if I could get the patcher to work. I think everyone wanted CO to succeed, it just doesn’t cut it at the moment.

  • Robert Schultz says:
    August 18, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    @IC:

    Quote: “Having seen what Cryptic has done in closed beta between patches, I think those who are considering this the ‘final product’ are mistaken.”

    I’ve seen this sort of ‘optimism’ and nearly this EXACT same though countless times before. On sooo many other MMOs.
    Every single time it has proved to be false.
    What you have now is basically what will be the ‘final product’.

    Quote: “Champions Online is a good, solid game.”

    Well, I’m glad you enjoy it. Just don’t expect a lot of company :)

    By the way, having been ‘around the block’ with MMO releases, it sounds by your words that your trying to convince yourself that it’s a good game worth keeping around. Ahhh, optimism. I remember when I had that when it came to MMO’s :)

  • Sente says:
    August 18, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Well, I’m glad you enjoy it. Just don’t expect a lot of company

    Well, add one here to those who enjoy it. Today was my very first visit into the game and I must say I had a quite good time. It was not without flaws, but overall I did find it quite nice.

  • Luk says:
    August 18, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    @Sente
    I am glad you liked it, because this game will need as much support as it can master before things get better.
    And CO does need to be better to lure more subs from other more polished games on the market. Sadly, so far it has ways to go.

  • Keen says:
    August 19, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    The apologists are out in force. My blog has been fleeting with them lately. I’m just going to cut and paste it because you said it so well Darren:

    “When Cryptic decided to go Open Beta, they also decided that it was time for the public to see their game. When they decided that, all bets on “it’s only beta” are off. If you don’t want a public opinion on your game, then don’t give it to the public.”

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